Institute management from the boat? - A professor shows how it's done!

Prof. Sebastian Kummer is head of the Institute of Transport Economics and Logistics at the Vienna University of Economics and Business Administration and an endowed professor at Jilin University in Changchun, China. He has been doing at least 50% of the management of his institute in a decentralized way for several years from a catamaran with which he sails the world's oceans. In the following, we conduct a Digital Ophthalmology interview with Prof. Kummer and ask him about his experiences on the topic of integrating NewWork components such as decentralized and flexible working, fulfilling life dreams and compatibility with long-established, university structures.

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Prof. Kummer,
You are the director or chairman of the Institute of Transport Economics and Logistics at the Vienna University of Economics and Business. You also hold an endowed professorship at Jilin University in Changchun, China. Where are you at the moment?
 

Honestly, I'm on my way home from the office through the Prater and had to finish a task.  That's why I look at the mails on the way home. There's not much to see here at night anyway. But actually I'm already on my way to sail again. Tomorrow morning I'm going to France where I'll take over a 42 foot Lagoon catamaran in Les Sable d'Olonne and sail it to Turkey. Therefore the last days were very exhausting again. But now I'm glad that I've done the essentials and can leave with a clear conscience after this episode. For tomorrow afternoon and the day after tomorrow morning there are already online meetings scheduled for the train ride. But the combination of sailing and work is much more fun for me than just working stationary or just sailing.

 
That sounds exhausting! So you run a university institute from a boat? I read that you have reduced your position at the university to 50% and thus spend half of your time on the water and work from there?
 

Basically, I had already anticipated the home office in 2018/2019. I had agreed with the university that I would only teach in the winter semester but generally work 100%.  But it is not practical to change the head of the institute every semester, and my colleague Tina Wakolbinger heads the Research Institute Supply Chain Management and was on maternity leave in the meantime. Now, in the course of the Corona crisis, almost all institute directors had to manage their institutes via home office, so I had certain advantages in terms of experience. If I actually worked only 50%, it would certainly not be exhausting, but sailing is pure relaxation (for me). Especially because I'm not normally alone on board for 67 days at a stretch without being able to moor. The challenge is rather that although the teaching is 50% gone, my tasks and also the workload are much more extensive in research but also with the management of the institute and since there is usually much more work than time anyway, I still work almost as much as with a 100% position.

 
Who then leads your staff, during the time you are on the water?
 
Scientists always have to be very good at self-organization. Our secretarial team is also self-organized and the management of the "boat office" has worked quite well. Even companies that are well positioned often function better when the bosses are not there, but of course you have to be careful that the mice don't dance on the tables when the cat is not in the house. The challenges were certainly much greater for my employees in the lockdown than for me.
 
Sounds like a great combination or a good work-sail balance as the Klostermanns describe it in their book of the same name. Still, it's a big step to switch from a home-office arrangement in Vienna to working off the boat abroad. Can you still remember the moment you made the decision to do this? What was the trigger and how did your employer react to it? From my own experience at German universities and especially university hospitals, I know that even in Corona times it is extremely difficult to implement a home office arrangement in the German public sector.
 
I had already made this decision for some time. After my children had graduated from high school (Austrian Abitur), I wanted to make a circumnavigation of the world in pieces. In this respect, it became concrete over a longer period of time. Since long-term planning is important for the institute, the students and other partners, I think I wrote a letter to the rector in 2015 and explained my plans. Then there was basically a conversation. I originally wanted to take 2 x 1/2 year, there is a rule in the Austrian civil service law 4 years working and one year sabbatical at 80% pay. That seemed like a very good fit and without much financial loss. The university said the sabbatical can only be taken in one piece and not spread over 2 half years and suggested 50% pay at 50% work, so I made 4 out of the 2 half years. Thus I have less money, but it would have been sufficient for a circumnavigation of the world in sections. It then came differently. In 2018 I sold my boat in the Caribbean, because the organization for the boat during the time I was working was complex and expensive. There was a big demand in the Caribbean for catamarans and I got a very good offer and sold. I think WU was happy, because budget-wise we could save a little bit overall. My colleagues probably think I'm a little crazy anyway. Many students, to whom I communicated the plan directly after the agreement with WU, thought it was cool and gave positive feedback. The same thing happened when I was trapped in no man's land for 1 1/2 months: (former) students offered help, the only mail from a colleague complained about the many media reports and the image I would give in public - although I always communicated that I have a 50% position and would not have to work. Some students and staff think that I work more with the 50% position than some colleagues with 100% positions.
 
I can understand that quite well. From my own experience, I can tell you that if you are a physician and do research, you are always the researcher among the physicians and treat fewer patients; if you work as a researcher from your home office (you can also write papers there), then you are not visible in the lab and also give the impression there that you are working less, although, just as you say, you actually probably work more and also contribute more to the university.
 
It is always difficult to break new ground, and the mixture of envy and distrust is probably encountered in all fields by those who do.
 
Basically, in the context of the "New Work" concept, which goes back to Mr. Bergmann and focuses, among other things, on decentralized working, rethought workplaces, independent working and work-life balance, you are even a pioneer at your chair. In view of the fact that you work at a university of economics, such a working model should be promoted? Prof. Feltes and his colleagues even write in your book "Revolution - Yes, Please!" that it can be assumed that in the future the majority of people will work in a similar way to your model. Where do you think the resistance will come from?
 
Basically, many people have the fear of the new. In my case, perhaps a little envy also plays a role, and I think many people also lack the imagination and curiosity that is necessary, in addition to knowledge, to reshape their lives and their work. Many managers may also be afraid of losing control and power.
 
By the way, I believe that the envy of other employees also comes from the fact that many people themselves do not realize their dreams because they lack the courage and are therefore basically dissatisfied with themselves. Someone like you then shows them this directly...
 
That is exactly the reason. Many people tell me, "You're good at it, you can do it!" Then I always ask "why can't you?" The answers are not very convincing. I waited until my children were studying, then I could be there for them from a distance. Before that, I thought this was incompatible in relation to my fatherly duties. My co-author, on the other hand, is much younger and has left everything behind in Germany; he is braver than I am, but he also has no children.
 
Would you yourself recommend a working model like the one you are pursuing to younger scientists and PhD students, or do you think one has to have worked "stationary" for a while to have enough experience for "mobile work" as what is called a "digital nomad"?
 
I think this is still an image problem, especially at the moment. At least until COVID-19, it was important to be physically present, to go to many conferences, to meet colleagues, and to cultivate networks in personal conversations. Moreover, the way I work, of course, you can't make a career at your own university. Even if it sounds absurd, I think it is more difficult for young colleagues, at least if they want to have a more or less classical university career.
 
I agree with you that younger researchers or academic staff tend to have disadvantages when they rely on flexible working hours or decentralized working. In the meantime, however, there are many commercial academic online providers, e.g. of study courses such as Coursera etc.. Here you can also obtain degrees or certificates that are individually tailored to your professional requirements. In addition, there are now many non-university, private sector institutions that conduct research and publish highly. In your book, you write that even before Corona, your institute relied on hybrid solutions consisting of web goods and events with compulsory attendance. Do you think traditional universities can keep up in the long run? Moreover, won't it be more difficult to find good employees if you don't offer NewWork models?
 
I think that well-positioned universities, such as the Vienna University of Economics and Business Administration, well-positioned institutes, such as the institute I lead, and perhaps the individual scientist even have advantages. It reminds me a little bit of the fear that universities of applied sciences could take away the water from the universities. Good UASs have their justification and there are some in my field, but you can't compete because of the reputation, research capacities and ultimately the excellent students that universities with good reputations attract. I can't think of a better place to work than a university, despite the anger and envy, and I hope it stays that way. But indeed, universities need to change and develop what they offer to female employees, especially in the direction of flexible work. It may not be easy, as I described, but I am convinced that this is the right way to go and that is why I am committed to it. indexed haven't even talked about the change from university to practice and back again, which is important for me. I was lucky enough to be able to do this due to family circumstances, and I promote this among scientists as well as my administrative staff. 
 
When you set off on a 6-week sailing trip, as you did this week, what kind of work items do you take with you? On which platforms do you work, which gadgets do you use especially on the boat for decentralized work?
 
Actually quite classic and like from home:
- Laptop
- mobile hard disk with all services of our server, because I often have no or no good internet connection
- cell phone with good contract and high data volume for local hotspot
-IPad
And when we are not close to land for a longer time satellite phone, in the past also a simple satellite box for slow data transfer but this time I did without it, because the mails have to be left for 3 days and if something is very important my perfect secretary team sees it (they see all mails) and could then contact me via satellite.
 
Do you use special project software or apps when working from the boat, or classic Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Outlook? What do you use for your conferences?
 
We basically work from the boat like we do from the office. And also in the meetings we use either MS Teams, Zoom or if the partners use another program, I use that as well. When we are at sea and don't have a good cell phone network, we can communicate via satellite, but this is very expensive and very slow in terms of data speed, at least if you don't want to spend a lot of money.
 
Are there things along the way to your current lifestyle that you would do differently in hindsight?
 

As far as the big decisions are concerned, I would do everything the same way, i.e. choosing my profession, accepting my first professorship in Dresden, starting a family, moving to Vienna. I turned down a call to Hamburg 7 years later because my wife and children didn't want to change cities, but that too was certainly the right decision. Perhaps I was too ambitious at one point or another, but I can make up for that now with my 50% job, and I think my children and family have suffered only moderately as a result.

 
What advice do you have for young scientists who want to follow a path similar to yours?
 
Competition has certainly become tougher, but there are more jobs. The most important thing is to publish, publish, publish in recognized journals. Personally, I would recommend working practically in my field of transportation and logistics; that's what my young female colleagues who want to pursue a university career do as well.
 
Have there been any problems at the university so far that you could not solve from the boat? If so, which ones, for example?
 
Actually no concrete ones, but you do have to invest a little energy when you haven't been in Vienna for 5 months, so that you get more involved again; both at the institute and with the practical projects, lectures and journalists, although it was easier in 2020 due to the strong media coverage. Of course, a lot of people knew me and thought of me.
 
For which activities or situations do you think physical presence is necessary and superior to online presence?
 
With us, actually, the apprenticeship. You can't do those just remotely, but with 50/50%, it's a good solution. The project partners from the field wanted - at least before the COVID-19 crisis physical presence.
 
Many people who have turned their hobby into a profession, or who have strongly intertwined the two, report that the lightheartedness of the hobby, in this case sailing, suffers as a result. Can you confirm this?
 

I would say partially. So I had to prepare the last two days a training that I give from 1.6-4.6, but I see it the other way around, prepare on the boat is nicer than at home, only sailing would be nicer. But I think it is possible. More problems are caused by the balancing act - fast transfer of the catamaran and training at the same time. So I have to let the crew sail alone for 5 days for the time of the seminar.

 
Do you actually think you will miss your work on the boat once you are no longer working?
 
I think that I will still work a long time and then there may be grandchildren on board. They would make me so I think even more fun than work!
 
Mr. Kummer, thank you very much for these great impulses and partly very personal insights! I wish you all the best and always a hand's breadth of water under the keel!
 
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